Attempts Removed from Normal ICC

In an interesting turn of events, Blizzard has made an announcement in preparation for this week’s raid lockouts.

Quote from: Daelo (Source)

After each region’s maintenance this week, raids will no longer lose attempts on wipes in Normal mode for Professor Putricide, Blood-Queen Lana’thel, Sindragosa, and the Lich King. There will still be limited attempts in Heroic mode.

We will continue to monitor developments in Icecrown Citadel in the future, especially since the Heroic difficulty has been unlocked by a significant number of raids.

I would call this shocking for a few reasons (As of Tuesday, February 9th):

  1. Only 32 Guilds worldwide have killed the Lich King in 25 Player
  2. Only 60 Guilds worldwide have killed the Lich King in 10 Player
  3. It’s only been 1 week since the release of Frozen Halls + Arthas were released
  4. Blizzard has already stated that there would be zone wide buffs to help guilds struggling on content

To further elaborate on point #4:

Quote from: Daelo (Source)

In the weeks and months after all twelve encounters are unlocked, additional attempts against the final four boss encounters become available. This represents the Ashen Verdict growing more powerful and gaining a stronger foothold in Icecrown Citadel. To further help raids, Varian Wrynn and Garrosh Hellscream will begin to provide assistance by inspiring the armies attacking Icecrown Citadel. This is represented as an additional zone wide spell effect applied to all players that will increase their hit points, damage dealt, and healing done. This effect will also increase in effectiveness over time. Players may opt out of the spell’s effect if they so wish.

Blizzard already had plans in place to assist guilds struggling with ICC content while at the same time providing an environment for more hardcore guilds to prove their skill via the attempt system. I’ve always been a fan of the attempt system as it proves quality > quantity. In fact, I would say that this system has truly shown that there is no #1 guild in the world, as we’ve seen the #1 kills being snagged by a multitude of guilds from various regions. So if the attempt system is working and things are in place to assist guilds struggling in the near future, why eliminate this system in normal mode?

After I calmed my e-rage over this I tried to think logically. Currently we (Daybreak) are probably on the bubble or slightly ahead of the bubble, we’ve killed Sindragosa in 10 man and probably will kill her in 25 man this week as well. But what if we weren’t so progressed? What if we were a guild that was struggling to kill Putricide and getting to Blood Queen with only a few attempts a week. I could see this being frustrating.

My concerns with a move like this are reverting back to a quantity > quality mantra again. Where being able to afford to raid 5-6 days a week means suddenly you’re the best guild on the server or even the world. Not only does it not reward efficiency it also tends to promote a more lackadaisical attitude to progression where “oops we wiped, oh well lets try again”. Having attempts helps to drive focus and intensity knowing that you only have X more attempts left. A prime example from the good ol days was Loatheb in Naxx60, it was so difficult that we would world buff (ZG, DM, Onyxia, Nefarian, Flasks, Potions etc) just to max out our dps/health/survivability. The fear of being the person to screw up alone drove everyone to play their best and we never once wiped as a result.

I will say that I am glad that there are still attempts on Heroic mode bosses and I truly hope that they don’t remove these restrictions too quickly because I am very interested in seeing who gets the world firsts. While the attempts are now gone, I’m still going to keep track and see how we are progressing. Best of luck to everyone in the new week.


10 Responses to “Attempts Removed from Normal ICC”

  1. 1 Eq February 9, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Shudders at the thought of Loatheb in vanilla wow. Farming those Shadow Absorption pots and using each and every buff we could find.

    But I agree Limited attempts system is a good method.

    He was the reason I quit playing the game…

  2. 2 Sar February 9, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    The problem is that the top guilds, who this was meant to slow down, did all the fights on their alts before using their mains… its not allowing them less attempts… they are just doing the attempts on multiple toons, so the desired effect is not happening.

  3. 3 chckenmcbndy February 9, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    I never liked the limited attempts myself. I’m a grown man that works a full-time job and has a life outside the game.

    I don’t enjoy being told how I can spend my time playing. Just because theirs a small population that is willing to attempt a boss until their eyes bleed I need to suffer?

    Not sure if I read into it correctly, but, I wouldn’t mind if this change was only for normal mode and they kept limited attempts on the hard modes. This would be a nice balance for all.

    • 4 Vallen February 9, 2010 at 5:15 pm

      It’s interesting that you have the opposite point of view from me but for the same reason.

      Personally I love the limited attempt system because I am older and I don’t have unlimited time to play in game. Having a set limit of attempts means there’s a set time limit on # of days we play and I can plan RL accordingly as a result. We (my guild) only raid 3 days a week and the limited attempts helps to ensure that it stays at 3 days.

      As it stands (for now), the attempt limits are now only in heroic mode. I have a feeling that given some time all attempts will be removed completely once a large enough population of guilds have completed ICC in heroic mode.

  4. 5 jtg February 9, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    I hadn’t really thought of it in those terms; I always assumed that limited attempts was just another way of making it harder. I believe a better guild will always learn fights faster than the rest, since that’s part of what makes them good players.

    So I think limited attempts is just intended to make it harder for guilds at the high-end of progression. (Guilds way at the top don’t need limited attempts — they’re racing each other). As you demonstrated, the new challenge for high-end guilds is actually killing the Lich King. Once that’s done, then hardmode limited attempts will be the new challenge.

  5. 6 chckenmcbndy February 10, 2010 at 8:33 am

    We actually ended the week with 1 attempt remaining. I have limited time also (as do most in my guild) so our raid times are strict with maybe an occasional 10-15 minutes of leeway.

    For me it’s just the point. I honestly don’t care about other guilds progression. If our guild wants to spend 1 hr clearing to a tier boss then the remaining 2 1/2 raid days wiping on that boss who’s to tell me I can’t?

    This will obviously be a mute point with unlimited attempts now. It was frustrating for the last 2 months though running out of attempts and off to Ulduar.

    Also, I play on a high population server so the lag monster is huge on raid days. So throw lag, random dc’s, and buggie content in with limited attempts and it only multiplies the frustration.

  6. 7 Mitch February 10, 2010 at 9:49 am

    If you’re a relatively efficient guild it is possible to easily burn through 20 attempts on new content in a reasonable amount of time. Last night we finally got Blood Queen and we’ll be able to take some time on Sindragosa this week. Now lets say the 20 attempt limitation was still in place: we would have 12 attempts left, which can easily be burnt through in a night, possibly even getting done early depending on how quickly we redeem Dreamwalker.

    We only raid 25s two night a week (optional 10 man a third night).

    If we were to finish tonight with no attempts left and still time on the raid schedule I would be pretty unhappy since they are limiting my limited raid time on a GAME I would like to play (sorry, caps for emphasis). While I understand you want to separate the okay from the best, do so by challenging the encounter, not limiting the way people play. That has always been one of the best parts about WoW: the ability to play the game in so many ways without being limited.

    I always thought the limited attempts system was okay if there were enough attempts, however the perfection system in place with things like insanity were flawed because of random things you can’t control. But when you’re limiting content to a guild that raids two nights a week? Sheesh, that’s harsh.

  7. 9 Viertel February 10, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    The problem is that Icecrown failed on two approaches; gated content *and* limited attempts. You need one or the other, not both.

    Gated content? Fine, it slows down the trickle of content available at a time and allows the developer to stretch out a raid instance as far as possible. Instead of the “Black Temple” syndrome they can slowly add new bosses to give people a reason to come back week after week for a while. The fact that you have to clear the content to even access hard modes is another.

    Limited attempts? It is a knee-jerk solution to trying to slow down bleeding edge guilds. But it’s easily gotten around by the fact that, as stated, they simply create alt raids to head in and learn the content. It ultimately serves no purpose other than to limit the amount of time people spend raiding, which completely defeats the entire *goal* of Wrath of the Lich King — to get people to RAID. It’s why Naxxramas was so easily accessible; limited attempts, even if most guilds never actually USED all of them back in ToGC, serves only as a mental deterrence.

    Having both did nothing more than artificially stretch out content even further and dictated how players were to enjoy their game. I got sick of that mentality in FFXI and is the main reason I left — you were to enjoy the game when the creators dictated, not when you wanted.

    • 10 Vallen February 11, 2010 at 11:47 am

      Prime example of my point is our Tuesday attempts at Lich King.

      We went in knowing that there were unlimited attempts and after the initial excitement worse off people started doing stupid shit (like bunny hopping off the cliff) and by 10:30-11 ppl were tired and wanted to quit for the night. If we had limited attempts we would have been more focused and overall more productive. I’m not sure if we would have been able to kill LK within 20 attempts but it could have been possible.

      I think we’re currently at 21 attempts on LK this week with our best at 14.5% Pretty freakin close if you ask me 😦

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As of 04/04/2011, I have officially retired from WOW. This blog will remain as a archived resource for those who know that CAT DRUID IS 4 FITE!

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