Cataclysm Raiding – Two Thumbs Up

This post is definitely much later than most, but as per my last post I have good reason to be behind! Mommy and baby are both doing fantastic and its unreal how fast they grow even in the span of 3 weeks. Even though this is stale news I did want to share my thoughts on the new Cataclysm raiding structure and how I plan on approaching it when the time comes. The full summary & follow-up discussions are located here.

New System Highlights:

  • 10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.
  • 10-Man and 25-Man raids difficulty will be as close as possible to each other.
  • 10-Man and 25-Man raids will drop the exact same loot, but 25-man will drop a higher quantity of items (items, badges & gold)
  • Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel
  • Achievements will be universal to 10 & 25 man, can be obtained from either

Cause and Effect

The question is what is Blizzard trying to achieve with these changes? Lets look at how raiding has evolved in the past 6 years.

  1. Vanilla WOW: 40 man raiding
  2. TBC Raiding: 25 man & 10 man raiding, achievements introduced
  3. WOTLK Raiding: 25 & 10 man raiding, hard modes introduced
  4. Cataclysm Raiding:  25 & 10 man raiding merged

Personally I think Blizzard has done a good job of understanding the age and age limitations of the game. As the game aged, they made the necessary adjustments to reduce the personnel commitments and introduced new ways (achievements & hard modes) to entice people into raiding. The elitist hard core gamers will say this game has been ruined since Vanilla due to the “casualness” of it, but realistically, how many people would still be raiding if we were on 40 man content? I definitely wouldn’t be. Spending 6 nights a week busting your face into content was fun when the game was new but not after 6 years. Top end guilds will always exist (as in any game) but the raiding population would be significantly smaller if it weren’t for the adjustments that Blizzard has made over the years. As Blizzard has stated, whats the point of developing fantastic new content if only 1% of the population will see it? They want as many people as possible to experience it. Finally, there naturally are potential negative side effects that should be considered as well,

  • 10 and 25 man raid sharing same ID will result in a smaller recruiting pool for 25 man raids
  • Same loot/achievements in 10 and 25 mans results in less reason to participate in 25 man raids
  • Similar challenge in 10 and 25 man raids, does this mean further simplification of 25 man content or increased challenge of 10 man content?

Rarren’s Predicted Cataclysm Experiences

Personally, I really would prefer to only participate in 10 man raids. Simply because there is a lot easier to rely on 9 ppl vs 24 ppl. The ability to play with the same people week after week greatly improves the cohesion and skill level of a group, which is significantly easier to accomplish with 9 people. Not only that but the bonds you form with 9 people are a lot tighter than with 24 people. I’ll be the first to admit that I do not chat with all 24 people in our 25 man raid and without those kind of bonds its hard to drive a raid to success.

If content is similar to WOTLK difficulty, we’ll probably be able to finish content within 1-2 days of raiding which is fine by me. In fact, if I really wanted to push our my raid schedule what I foresee happening is actually raiding with two characters in Cataclysm, both in 10 man situations. Healing/Tanking in every raid can become mundane and having an opportunity to flip to dps helps to keep things fresh. Our initial ideas were to have healers/tanks in our 10 man go dps and dps go healing/tank in our alt 10 man group.

While I may be ecstatic about the upcoming changes, there are many out there who probably hate this as well. It really depends on your WOW experience and how successful you have been in 10 vs 25 man content. What are your feelings on the upcoming changes?

Contrary to one negative anonymous poster, no I am not quitting wow or blogging. If I were I would done so by now. Have no fear, I am still here! (Hey, it rhymes!)

7 Responses to “Cataclysm Raiding – Two Thumbs Up”


  1. 1 Ampzilla May 13, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    I’m with you on the 10 vs. 25 topic. I can’t wait for Cataclysm, if I can knock out the same content and still get the same rewards (which I think IS fair) I’m all about doing 10 mans.

    I just don’t have enough time during the week anymore to progress in a 25 man environment. Obviously it’s easier to find a solid 9 other people with the same schedule/attitude/attendance as yourself.

    I can’t wait!

  2. 2 darksend May 13, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    I personally think this is going to kill 25 man raiding. But then again this game is to easy right now, every single ICC hard mode should have been as hard as H-LK and because it was not I have lost a lot of interest in the game. (which is why i never put anything about this on my blog)

    p.s. check your email and hit me back.

    • 3 Vallen May 15, 2010 at 3:08 am

      I essentially agree as well. The only way to make 10 man a viable option (in a 10 or 25 situation) is to make the risk/reward the same. In doing so essentially negates any reason to do 25. Which is the exact reason I see no reason to do 25 mans in Cata.

      While I don’t know if I would agree with making every hard mode as hard as H-LK I do agree that the increase in difficulty should be significantly higher to make the separate between normal and hard a lot more distinct. The point of hard modes is to cater to your high end guilds, and to water it down defeats the purpose.

      Will check email and get back to you shortly😉

  3. 4 darksend May 15, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Ulduar was suck an awesome instance for so many reason but not the least of which was the way they implemented hard modes. S

    ure flame levi was a bit cheap but easily overlooked because it was a vehicle fight.

    Mimiron at least you pushed a button in game rather than just changing a UI setting, but again the fight difficulty more than made up for it.

    The rest, XT and Thorim were great because when you were trying to hard mode you never knew if you would actually even make it. Trying to kill the heart was an awesome challenge , and the balance of killing the hall in time vs trying not to get overun outside.

    Hodir was great because on early kills you had that choice of we will JUST make it but if anything goes wrong we wont, so do we call the wipe of do we try and push and hope we make it.

    Iron council was a bit stupid on 25 but that’s ok considering it was a complete joke on 10 man, I think we killed 10 man hard mode before 10 man yogg 4 watcher. But again at least it was interesting and very very different on hard mode vs flipping a UI option and still killing them in the same order.

    1 watcher was so much fun as well.

    The only problem was the vezac gimmick but hey I GOT TO GO CAT FOR THAT!!!!!!!!! so I had no problem with it.

    With ICC though, simply switching a UI setting aside, the hard modes are no more or less fun than normal mode. That was simply not the case in Ulduar. Every single hard mode was much much more fun. Maybe that was because hard modes were new and fresh but I really do not think so. We killed yogg 4 watcher 25 the very first week, and months later (terrible drop luck aside – 10 straight leather chests off vezax and no flares or 2h weapons) it was still fun and challenging.

    Seriously blizzard if you are listening at all, GET RID OF THE HEROIC UI SETTING, IT IS RUINING THE GAME. Having to design every single boss in hard mode takes away from your creativity and diminishes the game.

    • 5 Vallen May 26, 2010 at 12:56 pm

      I agree with ya on that sense.

      If you (Blizzard) truly wants to make hard modes, they need to add unique feature that exist in hard modes only. Hard modes that just hit harder and require you to hit harder really don’t make them more interesting, just more annoying. Especially with more gear and % zone wise buffs, all hard modes end up doing is keeping fights non-trivial (to a certain extent).

      Hard Mode fights like Sarth3D and most of the Ulduar fights bring a unique challenging aspect to fights which is what keeps them interesting and “hard”.

  4. 6 Nich May 25, 2010 at 6:02 am

    I have to say I’m looking forward to these changes. Under the current raiding schedule, I have no time to arena. I was doing 25-man 3 nights a week, and 10-man 2 nights.

    Everyone is currently gauging 10-man content based on their current 25-man gear. Of course 10-man will be easier if 25-man gear is better. But that is changing in cata. Also, with the nerf to raid buffs, they can finer tune instances, and you wan’t absolutely need every raid buff to sucessfully raid.

  5. 7 Anonymous August 27, 2010 at 12:52 am

    killing 25m’s forces guilds to create many 10m’s and you form cliques and super groups and the guild unity is tested and perhaps erroded over time until it is destroyed. THis is going to be an immense challenge for guilds. Im worried that getting in a 10m will be too hard and i wont be able to raid.


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I’m Retired!

As of 04/04/2011, I have officially retired from WOW. This blog will remain as a archived resource for those who know that CAT DRUID IS 4 FITE!

About Me

A blog for the ramblings and thoughts of Vallen, a full time raiding cat druid from Auchindoun-US with a passion for raiding & achievements. An avid wow player since 2004.

For any questions or concerns contact me via comments or e-mail

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